Raagstars Podcast

Hey, dude.

So we're back.

We are back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Episode 3.

Episode 3.

Is this episode 3?

Oh, my God.

This is episode three.

It's episode three.

And it'll be in two parts.

It will be in two parts.

Because you've been doing exciting things.

I went on an adventure!

Yeah.

Tell us all about it.

You were at the New York Kathak Festival.

Yes.

So it turns out that one of our favorite
people, Alam Khan, was performing with

Abhijit Banerjee at the New York Kathak
Festival this year.

And I was like, yeah, let's let's go for
it.

So, you know, I have like my cousins and
I, we have the little group chat and we

love going on concerts
together and being obnoxious

and annoying and say wah
kya baat hai a little too loud.

Yeah.

So we saw Alam Khan previously.

He was he performed last year with Vivek
Pandya and amazing concert.

So like that concert was so good.

I was like, yeah, anytime he's on the East
Coast over here, you got to do it.

Especially in New York.

You got to go.

I was really bummed I couldn't come.

I'm sorry that you couldn't
come because I ended up going

on a side quest that was
like completely out of nowhere.

Yeah.

So when I texted the group chat,
I was like, hey, I want to come for this.

My cousin was like, you're not going to
believe who's who's who else is coming.

He was like, who?

And then he was like, oh, Susan Mohip
Dance Company.

And I was like.

Okay

OK, I don't know who that is.

Can you please inform me?

And he was like, what?

You don't know who that is?

I was like, yeah.

He was like, oh, they're like,
she's like really big in Trinidad.

I was like, hey, I understand that I am
Trini, but I'm still from Baltimore.

And he was like, oh, so he was.

So I was getting the lore and Susan Mohip
was.

She's a big.

Big proponent and like one of the big
figures in like Indian classical dance.

She's been performing
dance and she was like

on TV since she was like four years old.

Wow.

More importantly, she is a Kathak dancer.

And I was like, I didn't
realize we had those in the

Caribbean, much less a
whole entire dance troupe.

So I was like, OK, I am definitely coming
for this.

Uh huh.

Um, and.

Obviously with this going on, um,
I wanted to like, I wanted to reach out

and be like, hey, would you mind sitting
and chatting?

Yeah.

And it turns out that like my friend's
dad, uh, went to school with, um,

Susan's husband and they all have like a
great relationship with, with each other.

That's awesome.

So shout out to Uncle Anand.

Thank you for like, he, he gave me numbers
and like, you know.

I ended up sitting down with both of them
for an interview.

You just reached out to them directly.

Yeah.

Um, so I got a chance to
sit down with, uh, Susan

Ji herself along with her
husband, Rana Ji as well.

And I was like, I mean, dude, come on.

I was texting, I was texting you the
entire time.

You know, I was sweating bullets for this
bullets.

Yeah.

You did great.

You did great.

I really hope so.

Yeah.

For your first time doing a, uh,
a, a.

Remote solo interview, all of those things
individually.

First timer.

Yeah.

You did good.

Oh, thank you so much, man.

I, oh my God, I was sweating bullets so
much.

I was so nervous.

I couldn't control what accent was coming
out during the interview.

It was good.

Uh, I enjoyed your, uh, accent roulette.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is going to be great, but I was
researching a bunch of, uh, I was

researching backstories on, um,
Susan Ji and Rana Ji and like, I think

that's what ended up getting me even more
nervous because they're professors at the

University of Trinidad and Tobago,
they won scholarships to go study vocals,

music, and Kathak in India during the
eighties.

And I was like, Hey, uh,
remember how I want to work

up to having like, you know,
professors on the podcast?

Yeah.

We're starting with baptism by fire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

It was, it was a wonderful experience and
like, I was, I was so happy to see that

level of artistry in Indian classical
music being represented on stage at the

New York Kathak because
that's a big thing and it was just

awesome to see the representation
and that level of artistry.

So it was great.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

So now we're going to hear your interview
with the both of them.

So.

Yeah.

So now, uh, we're going to do some editing
magic and you're going to hear the

interview with, uh, me and Susan and
Rana ji.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Like I said, sorry for the accent roulette
and yeah, that's pretty much it.

Hope you guys enjoy.

Yeah.

Part one.

Part one.

Hello there.

It's your friendly neighborhood editor,
man, Gaj, and I'm thrilled to finally

bring you our interview with Susan and
Rana ji just a quick heads up though.

My choice of recording.

Location for this one was not my best
work.

Apparently the adjacent room was hosting a
very high energy salsa marching band,

interpretive dance class with very heavy
percussion.

So you might notice
the audio quality take a

little bit of a vibe shift
during the segment.

This is what it sounded like in real time.

(Aggressive mugiwara vibes)

And this is actually what we had to work
with.

This entire performance.

Where like we tried, we really did to our

audio only listeners,
please listen closely.

I am not trying to
gaslight you into buying

new headphones or a better sound system.

It's not your equipment.

It's entirely our fault.

Just think of it as vintage audio.

Thank you.

Enjoy.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you.

No, thank you.

I, like I said, I was, uh, I was chatting
with my podcast

host last night.

And he was so sad that he could not come
here to be with us.

So hopefully after all of this,
I'm painting green with envy.
(who says this?)

(Oh wow, that got a laugh)

It's the best thing.

Um, I don't even know what to begin just
because of the fact that there's so much I

want to talk to you guys about,
especially when it comes to music,

when it comes to dance, all of your
perspectives, that's when it comes to

being Indo- Caribbean,
especially going abroad

to India to study all,
study all of your arts.

I am.

I'm just.

I'm just going to try to do my best to
skim the surface right now.

Okay, all right, cool.

Um, Susan Ji.

Namaste.

Namaste.

You had the, I had the greatest privilege
of seeing you the day before yesterday,

performing at the New York Kathak
Festival.

Thank you.

Like, first time here, right?

First time performing at this level.

Yes.

Wow.

Oh, man

Uh, Susan Ji.

With a lifetime of public
performances behind you,

I mean, you are on tv
since you were like four years old.

Is there any personal purpose
or message that you were hoping

for the audience to take away
from your performance on Friday?

On Friday?

Yes, um, to let the audience and the
people know, uh, internationally and also

in my country that, you know, Indian
classical music, Indian classical dance,

um, there's a lot of
dedication and, you know,

focus if you want to
improve into your career.

Yeah.

Whether we are Bollywood, whether we are
Soca, whether we are Chutney,

it depends on, on our, um, direction that
we're going in.

Of course.

I do believe a firm foundation in music is
what helps us.

Um, there's nothing like
there's, there's no way

of going backwards, but
we all have inborn talent.

Yeah.

We all have natural talent.

We come with some skills.

We all sort of god gift, um, presence,
you know, that has been handed over to us,

but nurturing what we know and nurturing
our confidence, nurturing our knowledge is

important because then it takes you to a
level, an educational level, um,

that's beyond barriers.

(Internally wah and kya baat hai-ing)

I mean, speaking of education,
you both are instructors at the University

of Trinidad and Tobago.

Yeah, we are both senior educators at,
like, University of Trinidad and Tobago.

You teach Kathak.

Yes, I do.

And you teach music.

Music itself.

Yeah.

Oh, speaking of music,
Rana ji, you are also started,

started your music
career early in your life.

Yeah, I started when I was just eight
years old.

Yeah.

Um, what does it mean that
you're here with Susan Ji at the NYC

Kathak Festival as a Trinidadian
in Indian classical music?

Well, um, actually the piece that she
danced.

Yes.

It's a piece that I composed while I was
in India.

And I took some of my
friends who worked at

All India Radio and went into the studio.

Actually, this was a Tarana that I had
learnt from my Guruji.

Yeah.

And, um, when Susan's teacher,
heard it, she said, you know, this Tarana,

you know, would be nice if we could do
this in dance.

Wah

So there's where the idea came from.

And then we started working on it and put
in all the different elements in it.

Yeah.

And then the piece was born.

And the piece, interesting enough, um, it

was done in the studio,
so it was not preset.

Woof.

It was just minds coming together.

His musical genius, um, his
musicians and my Guru and I, we

just came together at that
point and recorded this piece.

And I guess that's why it's so,
so, so special to us.

I don't recall if you guys heard,
but as soon as the Jugulbandi came with

the steel pond, I think me and my entire

crew, we were just
bawling with appreciation.

See?

Yeah, we have tasa playing to come celebrate
you.

So we took the meters of the, uh,
rhythms.

Yeah.

And we added the notes of Raag Hansdhwani when
he did that, you know, so it shows the...

And such a lighthearted raag to just
elevate this entire performance.

Yeah, it's a piece that really brings the
celebration.

Hansadhwani is one of those, it's one of
those things, it's one of those raags

where no matter if you have an ounce of
classical knowledge or if you are,

have the ocean's worth
of classical knowledge, it's

something that everyone from
every culture can appreciate.
(I thought I cooked with this...)

And I think that the, between the dance
and the choreography and between the

music, it was just a wonderful experience
just coming from a

"Professional audience."

Yeah, it was interesting because,
um, when I came back from India, Yeah.

Um, I always had it in
the back of my mind of

where I would like to
see dance and music go.

Yeah.

So when we came up from India,
it was traditionally recorded.

And settling back home.

We are back home and
actually now getting into teaching

because we both teach apart
professionally at the university.

We also have our own institution where we
impart our knowledge.

We promote Indian classical arts and
Indian culture on the whole, you know.

The pan was something that I was drawn to.

And what they did was a miracle in the
studio because they just went back in and

said, well, this was my idea of
reinventing the piece and putting in

something from a traditional Trinidad
aspect.

And again, to his genius mind, he was able
to pull the rug completely on the pan.

Yes.

And that startled me.

I had the honor of interacting with
another Trinbagonian.

She's a professor at University of
Maryland.

Her name is Dr. Josanne Francis.

Nice.

And she also loves to combine steel pan
and especially that performance.

She was performing with a good tabla
player friend of mine.

So that was also one of the first times
where I ever saw my Indian classical roots

and my Trinbagonian roots all on the
same stage.

And to experience that
again with not just the

music, but with the
choreography and dance.

It's just absolutely mind blowing.

Absolutely mind blowing.

So did New York see something like this
before?

Well, unfortunately, I can't
speak of all of New York

because I'm from Baltimore,
so I'm from the DC area.

And as much as I'd love to come up here
and experience as much Indian classical

music as I can, all I have to say is that
my 33 years on this earth, this is the

first time that I ever seen anything like
this in my life.

So again, that's to tell you how much

appreciation comes from
just watching you guys.

Yeah.

I would love to get more into your Indian
experience.

And I think we'll go on with that a little
bit later.

Susan Ji, you give your
mom a lot of credit for

nurturing you and guiding
you in the world of dance.

Yes, I do.

What types of music and dance did she
expose you to while you were growing up?

Interestingly enough, my mom came from a
very, very simple background.

She learned, she knew Bhojpuri.

Bhojpuri language.

And her contribution to my career was that
she understood the language.

She saw that I had an inborn talent.

Wow.

She loved music.

Yeah.

You know, those vinyl records.

Yes.

That's a thing.

That's an antique thing.

It's a thing that people now collect and
all of that.

And she had about dozens of those.

Yeah.

And constantly listening to music.

She was very musical.

Yes.

She had a lovely ear for music.

A lovely air for taste and dance and
design.

Do you recall any artists that she used to
play in?
(what was this accent Gaj?)

Suman Kalyanpur

Who was that?
(shocked pikachu face)

Suman Kalyanpur.

That was in her time.

Oh, okay.

And Lata Mangeshkar.

Oh, of course.

Of course, Lata ji, right?

Yes.

So, she would listen to Kishore Kumar all of
these Bollywood songs.

Yes.

Call them today.

Yes.

But the classics.

Yes.

So, she had an inner vision.

So, lo and behold.

Yes.

She had bought a Ravi Shankar.

That's when I first learned and heard his
music.

Oh.

I was like 11 years old.

Yeah.

She had bought a Ravi Shankar record.

Wow.

And had me dance a piece on it.

Wow.

I don't know what I was doing back then.

Yeah.

Because I just thought it was so
innovative.

That's what you call real innovation.

As a sitar player, it's
very rare to find a sitar

player who hasn't been
influenced by Ravi Shankar Ji.

Yes.

And he is such a monumental
proponent of Indian

classical music,
especially here in the West.

Yeah.

Well, he's the first one to bring it to
the West.

He was the first one to bring it to the
West.

And that's how I kind
of... the first time, at 11

years old, what Indian
classical music is, I guess.

But I didn't know that had a... that had a
purpose.

Yes.

That was my first initiation, I have to
say, to Indian classical music.

Wow.

Through my mom buying a record for this
whole collection that she had,

have me dance everything, anything.

And then, at the age of 18, it started to
make full sense.

Yes.

I feel like Indian
classical music is one of

those things where, like,
it doesn't make sense.

You have, like, little pieces that you
just focus on, and then, at some point,

everything just collects in on itself,
and it all starts to make sense.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, it does take a very long
time to get there.

Yes.

Yes.

Ranan ji, same question to you.

What kind of music did you grow up
listening to?

And what kind of artists did you grow up
with?

Well, I started off singing bhajans,
actually, being a Sri Sathya Sai Baba devotee.

Mm-hmm.

Going to satsangs, you know.

And just... then my father saw
that I was interested in music,

because I used to go right
up front and look at the musicians.

Yeah.

And then come home and tried it.

So he bought a dholak, he bought a
harmonium, and just... like that,

we started experimenting, and then we
realized that I had an actual gift.

Yeah.

I could just listen to something and be
able to play it.

Oh.

So it was a God-gift talent that I had.

Yes.

Wow.

So after that, I started
playing in orchestras back

in Trinidad, what we
call the Indian orchestras.

Yes.

I joined a band called the Gayatones
Indian Orchestra.

Yes.

So I had that gift that if
I listened to something, I

could reproduce that on a
keyboard or on a harmonium.

But then I started listening
to some classical music, and

then I became very interested
in what is this, you know?

And then I was offered a scholarship to go
to India to study music.

Yeah.

And that's how my journey started,
basically.

Wow.

Wow.

Let's take a break from
the regular questions, and

let's do something a
little bit more light-hearted.

Sure.

What is a dish that you
just eat that has put you

in the mood for a good
rehearsal, or a good concert?

Well, I would say paneer.

Oh, yes.

That's one of my favorites.

Okay.

Okay.

Are we talking about Shahi Paneer?

Yeah.

Shahi Paneer.

Butter paneer masala

What kind of paneer?

There's something called paneer bhujia.

Paneer bhujia.

When you mash up the paneer, it's coming
down very nice.

That's my favorite.

Same.

Same thing?

Yeah.

We have kind of very similar tastes.

Yeah.

Is chai included?

And chai.

It must be.

It has to mean everything.

Masala chai is plus.

Yes.

Masala cha.

It has to mean everything.

The chai...

There is a direct correlation
between how good the

chai is and how good the
taans are in the performance.

(thank you for laughing at my jokes Susan ji)

Interesting.

Yeah.

Susanji, back to your mom.

Is there anything that you're comfortable
sharing about any particular memories of

her during your performances growing up or
anything like that?

Her dedication to practice.

Yeah.

She was a stickler for practice.

And I remember being very, very...

Oh, she taught me what dedication meant.

On a Saturday, I would practice from one
to four.

That was my blocked time on a Saturday.

Yes.

To practice dance.

One o'clock to four o'clock.

I had to clear my
schedule, do whatever I had

to do and be ready
to practice at that time.

So she was a stickler for respect.

Yes.

She was a stickler for, you know, the
dedication and the practice to the process.

So she was my choreographer back then.

And she would pick my songs.

Yeah.

She would guide my songs, make my
costume and my... I had a very good unit.

Yeah.

Like my sisters and my brothers,
they all supported me.

Yeah.

So it became a natural joy for all of us.

My family is very, very supportive.

Yeah.

But my mother was the one who would not
say no ever to a performance.

She believed it didn't matter if it was a
paid gig or if it was not.

She would always say,
when you get the opportunity

to showcase your talent, you must do it.

But always be mindful.

Yeah.

Be mindful.

But when you can dance, it's not always
about the commercial part of it,

but also the part of where you enjoy what
you do.

So today I carry that with me.

It shows.

I carry that.

Like I do things, I do productions back
home.

Sometimes I don't know where anything
would come from, where the finance would

come from to support
productions, where, you know,

costumes would come
from, but with a dedication.

Once you have a goal taught and passed on
by her, her values that happen,

that comes.

I feel like her dedication to the craft is
very apparent.

Yeah, there was.

And mind you, she did not like, she didn't
know anything about classical music.

She loved Bollywood music.

So I became at the age of
four, a national, you know,

figure and icon that was able
to get out there and perform.

Like I said, like I said, I'm 33 years
old.

When I'm talking to
other people my age, baby

Susan does still come
up with conversations.

Yes, it does.

Yeah.

Wow.

Rana ji, you said you left for India in
87.

Yeah.

Like Susan ji, okay, you both left the
comforts of home.

Yeah, we did.

Rana ji, is there a specific
memory from learning

under your guru, Pandit
Vinay Chandra Maudgalya?

Yeah

Is there any, was there one specific
instance where something occurred

And that just solidified
your dedication to

Indian classical music
as a non-Indian born?

Okay.

So at first when I went to India,
nobody knew I was a musician.

Yeah.

Because I kept that a secret.

I didn't want to say, Hey, I could just
listen to something and reproduce that.

Yeah.

So I just went quietly, you know,
for a couple of months, I was in the

class, just listening, taking in and trying
different things.

And then eventually they realized that,
you know, my pickup is fast.

Right.

When, in fact, I was in India.

In fact, the group of
us who were there, the

group of students,
they also realized that.

So, you know, when in classes,
they don't tell you to write anything.

You can't write in front of the guru.

All right.

So you have to remember everything that
you're learning.

Memory.

And when you dash out of the class,
then you try to write down the notation.

Right.

So I had a very, I could just listen to

something and tell
you the notation of that.

I had that gift since I was small.

So when my friends
realized that as soon as we

got out of the class,
they would all come to me.

Yeah.

And they would say, oh, what was that?

(heavenly vocal sargam)

Like that.

You know, so I would be able to tell them,
yeah, that, you know, those are the notes.

Yeah.

These are the notes.

And then they'll start writing down the
notation.

So, you know, and very
soon my principal realized

that I was also able
to play the harmonium.

And, you know, these big artists started
coming to Vidyalaya.

So one day he said, you know, we have this
artist coming.

Would you be able to play the harmonium
for him?

But it was classical music.

Because in classical music, if you are
accompanying a vocalist.

Yes.

Whatever they are saying.

That's right.

You have to reproduce that immediately
afterwards.

Yeah.

Right?

So then they realized that I had the gift
to do that.

It was a gift to do that.

And then I started that.

Yeah.

There is actually where my journey
started.

I was able to play for Pandit Jasaraj on
many occasions.

Yeah.

Rajan and Sajan Mishra.

Pandit Ulhas Kashalkar

Yeah.

Ashwini Bhide

Ashwini Bhide

Veena Sahasrabuddhe

Wah

You know, many of the top artists in the
time was.

Yes.

In fact, whenever they came to Delhi,
they asked for me.

Aha.

You know, and the regular
harmonium player at that

time in Delhi was a guy by
the name of Mehmood Dholpuri

Aha.

He used to accompany all the artists.

So after some time, he realized that the
artist is not asking for him anymore.

Oh ho.

Oh ho.

So me and him became good friends.

And then he was asking, you know,
when are you leaving to go back?

That's so funny.

You know, because I was taking his market,
you know.

So, I mean, my experience then being able
to just sit on the same stage with these

artists, it was really, really a great
experience.

It has actually helped our ability to do
fusion work.

Yes.

Our ability to make a better Bollywood
music.

Yeah.

So it has helped us to be a better fusion
dancer for me.

You know, so like if you hear him sing,
you know, you would hear him sing ghazals

and you hear film songs and you hear the
oldies and then you hear bhajans and then

you can hear the quality of these things,
of these types of music is so, you know.

At a high level.

So one would tend to think like,
okay, yes, I always say, you know,

if you can find the time to learn,
you learn.

It just gets better.

Of course.

Yeah.

Even in that recording that we did for
this Hansadwhani.

Yeah.

All these musicians were like A-grade
artists in All India Radio.

But yet when they went to me,
when they went into the studio,

they were depending on me to
tell them what they should play.

All right.

That's to create that mood.

Yeah.

So, you know, having respect also.

What, what, what a joy it is to have that
level of camaraderie with those,

that caliber of artist.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my Guruji, she's out of this world,
Vashti Mishra di.

And I also learned from Durga Arya.

They are out of this world.

Like their work, their, their knowledge,
they're so vast.

You know, you, you learn and you cannot
stop learning.

You can't.

You can't.

Just keep going.

The learning process is lifelong.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

I always tell my
students, like when I went

to India, you initially
went for two years.

I ended up spending seven and a half years
there.

First I did my Pravikshika,
then Madhyama, then

I did my Visharad, which
is a bachelor's degree.

And after that, I went on to do my
Sangeet Alankar, which is a master's degree.

So, you know, music is something that you,
you can't finish learning.

The first Raag I learned when I first went
was a Raag by the name of Raag Bhopali.

Bhopali.

Yeah.

And after I finished my master's degree,
after seven and a half years, my Guruji

came to me and he said, okay, now that you
have this piece of paper in your hand.

Would you like to learn Raag bhopali?

Just to tell you how vast the music is

I don't want to keep you guys.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sitting down with
me.

I just, I cannot begin to articulate my

appreciation for your
craft and your dedication.

And I want to thank every, I want to thank
everybody, but most importantly,

I want to
thank Anand Sahabir Ji

for setting up this
interview for both of us.

I, I really look, I'm so looking forward
to having you guys.

I'm so looking forward
to having you guys on

Warrant because there's
just so much going on.

We would love to be here.

We would love to come and do some work
with you all.

Yes.

And, you know, to, to let the,
you know, the Indo-Caribbean diaspora,

you know, be aware, like, you know,
and get more involved.

Yeah.

And I would love to come back to perform
for you all.

And we do full-fledged concerts.

So, whatever can happen in the future for
the propagation of Indo-Caribbean culture

and classical music and Indo-Caribbean
music as well, you know, something with a

difference, you know, something with a
difference.

We have very much.

Very, very, very supportive.

I would love to be here with you all.

It's been an honor.

Thank you so much for your time.

You're welcome.

And I look forward to hearing
good things, seeing good

things, and to continue
doing good things with you all.

Of course.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Namaste.

All right, guys.

Please enjoy the concert.

All right.

Thank you so much.

All right.